Lutherans vote to allow gay ministers
Apparently, this is becoming such a big issue that it’s creating a divide in the Christian denomination as a whole, and others are facing the same issue. My question is: How is this an issue? Not because I have reservations about gay rights, but because I really wonder about the people that are discriminated against and stick with the church! The original article states that the current ban prohibits gay people from being appointed as ministers unless they vow to be celibate (which I guess is not a requirement if you’re straight).
So is it just people clinging to their beliefs? I would think that people who are gay, with their church telling them it is sinful from the start, would not even want to be a minister, much less enough of them that it’s dividing their organization. Maybe I just don’t understand the details very well.
But can I take a quick moment to raise some points about the gay rights issues in Christian denominations? First, I challenge someone to give me bible verses that show that this is really the teaching of your religion, rather than people trying to justify their prejudice. You want to quote me Leviticus?
Leviticus 18:22 – “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”
Fine, then I get to quote Leviticus too:
Leviticus 25:44-46 – “Thy bond-men and thy bond-maids which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you: of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids…. And they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession, they shall be your bond-man forever.”
I guess our hands are tied. We get to have slaves. How convenient that the bible commands this one too, or do you just want to pick out the passage that suits your current beliefs? Or, we can use the one from Deuteronomy:
Deuteronomy 23:17-18 - “There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.”
My turn again:
Deuteronomy 23:2 – “A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. ”
Deuteronomy 21:15-16 – “If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn.”
So it would seem we also can take multiple wives, and we need to turn away people who were born out of wedlock from praying with us. Better get some good church bouncers if you’re going to stick to the bible! There’s also some fun stuff about not letting any man whose genitals have been crushed into your church. How do you plan on enforcing that one?
Either follow the bible or don’t. You can’t call it a sacred text when you want to interpret it literally, and then ignore the parts that seem wrong for this age when you want that. Give me a break.
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“I would think that people who are gay, with their church telling them it is sinful from the start, would not even want to be a minister, much less enough of them that it’s dividing their organization” – i think it might be a ‘trying to make a change from within’ kind of thing.
I guess. I can sort of see the merit in that, but not really. It still feels like they’re deluding themselves. Either the religion teaches that it’s wrong to be gay, or it doesn’t. Pretending that you can change church policy without invalidating the whole belief structure is living a lie. If you can change the policy, then it was never really the “Word of God”. And if you can’t change it and you don’t agree with it, why keep following it?
I agree, I don’t see why gay people want anything to do with Christianity. I think it’s pretty clear — god doesn’t like gays so why would you want anything to do with him. And by trying to change the church from within, well if its changable then god really isn’t infallible and your whole premise is a joke.
Of course gays should have absolutely the same rights as everyone else outside of the church. But the church is allowed to have its own ridiculous bigoted rules and if you don’t like them then don’t go to that church. Telling the church who or who can’t become priests is no more different than saying if gay people can or can’t become dungeon masters in the dungeons and dragons game — it’s all a fantasy world so let them make up whatever rules they want in their contrived fantasy world.
Precisely. It’s nothing more than a club, and they get to make the rules. It’s your choice to be there, so quit complaining about it and leave. Find something worthwhile to spend your life on.