Bible in Texas Schools: Quit whining!
I’m sure that anyone who is interested in what I write has already heard some alarming statements about Texas public schools requiring a course covering the Bible! Oh no! I’d like to be one of the first to say, “Easy there killer, it’s not as bad as you pretend”. I will admit that there are a lot of atheists, especially on the internet, who take the alarmist stance on anything that promotes religion in our country. And in general, I would agree that in government controlled and/or funded situations (like public schools) we should refrain from promoting any religious ideas. It’s simply not the place for the government to endorse any beliefs in particular (and no, atheism is not a belief system that’s subject to the same rules).
But, guys, read about it a little more before you hit the “Submit with alarming caption” button. First of all, it’s an ELECTIVE. Kids can choose to take it if they want. I bet they already have a Greek mythology elective too. I don’t recall outrage when that was made an option. Second, it’s not even a standard, always available, elective:
The legislation states that all school districts must offer a course as an elective for the 2009-2010 school year if more than 15 students show interest.
That’s right, 15 students have to ask for there to be a bible course before they are required to provide it. And let’s not get into the debate about parents asking for it when the kids don’t want it. If the parents want to force them to go to bible study every night, they can already do that.
Finally, while I may not agree with following the bible for a guide on every decision in your daily life, learning about what it says is hardly a bad thing. The vast majority of people in this country identify themselves as Christian (I think it’s near 75%). I think that makes the book somewhat relevant to our society, whether I like it or not. It’s up to the teacher to decide how the book is presented, but you cannot deny that a book that has survived 2000 years and has 75% of the country following it isn’t worth some study.
So please, atheists, let’s stop jumping at shadows and spend our time worrying about things that really are a problem. Here are two reasonable examples: [Atheists can't hold office in Arkansas] [Atheist bus ads pulled].
What do you think? Am I too lenient here?
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I agree, but many atheists on reddit did not agree with me on this story. It’s kind of watered down though, that it’s just an elective. I would prefer that everyone knew some of the basics of the Bible because of its importance in Western civilization, but these classes will mostly be elected by people who already know the Bible. There might be a couple of trouble makers in some classes, but I don’t think may people’s minds are going to be expanded by an elective class.
My daughter started reading Connections by James Burke, and then decided she needed to read the Bible because of all the Biblical references he makes, and because of such references in general. She never knew it was so insane! And her mom made her go to Sunday school till she was 14. I guess they didn’t teach the juicy parts.
I think that’s the biggest thing, for me. I don’t put the bible above anything else, but so many people do that you really should learn something about it. Still, you’re probably right about how it will turn out, and the stuff they should really expose you to will stay hidden.
And, yes, I frequent reddit too. I know exactly how a post like this is likely to go over with the reddit crowd :) I usually enjoy browsing links there, but “it’s not that bad” kinds of posts get buried.
“I bet they already have a Greek mythology elective too.”
Really? I bet they don’t, and I live in TX and went to TX public schools.
Interesting. That surprises me. I went to a Catholic high school and we had Greek mythology. That’s too bad too; I found it to be a really interesting class. We also had a religions-of-the-rest-of-the-world class. As you might guess, it was riddled with “look how silly this one is… oh and look how silly THIS one is!” So an elective course in Texas public school may not be the mind-opening experience it should be. I hear you.
While I agree that this is not cause for alarm, I disagree that it is not worth the effort to fight against. In this particular case, this is a clear and blatant disregard of the establishment clause. The Hebrew/Christian bible is specifically named and the directive also allows the spending of school funds to pay teachers for the specific purpose of teaching this class.
Schools are not so well funded that we can afford to divert funds to bible study. As you said, parents can already force their kids into after school bible study if they wish, thus there is very little need for taxpayers to foot the bill.
So no, not a panic issue, but illegally violating the constitution and diverting public funds to pay for religious instruction are also not things to bend over for.
I really think it depends on the manner it’s presented. True, schools are not rolling around in extra cash, so maybe this should be much lower priority than it is. But I maintain that learning about the bible in an objective sense is a worthwhile goal. Like it or not, it influences a huge amount of our country. As long as it’s presented objectively, and/or taught as a book, not the Truth, I don’t think it’s really violating anything. Understandably, this isn’t the best state for this to happen, though.
“But I maintain that learning about the bible in an objective sense is a worthwhile goal.”
Of course. That’s what we all want to see happen as far as the general education system is concerned. All of these subjects should be taught in the same context that Greek Mythology is taught. But we all know that won’t be the case for the far majority. You hinted at it in one of your replies. The majority of America is Christian, and this is especially representative of high school and lower-grade education. Do you honestly think that given the chance, these people won’t inject their own personal beliefs and truths into what they teach? I guarantee these classes will end up being more about preaching than teaching. When you simply allow this to happen, you begin setting precedents that effect other areas of life. I definitely won’t take the stance that it is “okay” unless objectivity can be assured. Unless they screen those teachers to be of other religious faiths (or atheist), we know that objectivity and any merit of learning will be lost on our youth.
It may be cliche, but the youth of this country -is- more important than bus ads or not being able to take office in Arkansas (honestly, do you think they’d elect an atheist to any powerful part of their government?). The best chances for actual change rely on a generation that isn’t being brainwashed. You could argue these kids may already be getting that treatment anyway, but this serves to further buttress their already steadfast stubbornness as far as free thought is concerned. Giving them a voice like this in our -secular- education system is absurd.
Again, I agree that there is plenty of value in teaching -about- the world’s religions and their influences on society. But until you can guarantee some semblance of objectivity, it should not be allowed. Preaching is not teaching.
Then I would say we’re fighting the wrong battle. I don’t hear many people, besides you, wanting to fight for objectivity in the teaching. It’s usually some mess of “Burn all bibles!” kind of talk.
And you’re completely right about the youth of the country being a very high priority. I’ll have to live with them when they grow up, and it’s very important to make sure they think critically in all aspects of their lives. The references to the other two topics were meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek, but I guess it didn’t come off that way. But if you read that section of the Arkansas state constitution, it forbids atheists from even testifying in court. A good lawyer could make all of your eyewitness account worthless if he didn’t like it. I don’t think it will last long, but it’s surprising to me that some states might still have laws like this on the books.
“Then I would say we’re fighting the wrong battle. I don’t hear many people, besides you, wanting to fight for objectivity in the teaching. It’s usually some mess of “Burn all bibles!” kind of talk.”
The subject of the Bible and other religious texts should be taught from a philosophical/historical/psychological standpoint. I don’t think many reasonable people would have a problem with that, if it was taught properly. It’s just many are justly concerned that as I explained, the subject isn’t going to be taught, it’s going to be preached at kids.
As for the Arkansas law, it wouldn’t hold up in court if it was ever brought up. There are many, MANY such laws that are similarly based on inane, idiotic concepts that were bore out in legislature sometimes hundreds of years ago. The only reason they remain on the books is that nobody ever brings them up or prosecutes based on them, because again, they would be immediately challenged and stricken off the books. Now.. why these laws still exist and nobody’s actually gone through to destroy these ancient vestiges of a more ignorant age, is probably a multitude of reasons. I’d guess the main one I’ve already touched upon.
Doesn’t come as much of a surprise to me, considering our country’s past.
If they were to teach the bible from a critical thinking point of view then that would be great, but we all know that is not the intent and not what will happen in the class. It will be preached and not taught. In that class you definitely will not hear about that the gospel of Mark is probably the first gospel and was written decades after the events it claims to have occurred — so it’s not an eyewitness account. You won’t that the other gospels are probably derived from Mark. You won’t hear about the inconsistencies within the bible. You won’t hear about the fact that the original copies of the bible are long lost and the versions we have today are copies of copies of copies. You may not even hear that the bible was not written in English.
So bottom line is we all know that the way the class will be “taught” will be from the perspective that the bible is the infallible word of god who sent us his only son to die for our sins. From that perspective the class will be useless.
I agree with mjb. I’m all for biblical literacy, but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that this would be an objective study of the holy book. Why should we turn a blind eye to a publicly funded course just because it’s an elective? We have science teachers who are itching to teach creationism in their classes (some in fact do get away with it). Do you think bible class teachers will take a disinterested view when s/he starts teaching it?
What if a Methodist takes the class and is taught that only Calvinists are right? Or a Jewish kid enrols the subject because he’s interested in his and Christian scripture, only to be guilt-tripped for being a Christ killer? I’m sorry but teaching a class about the bible is a tragedy waiting to happen. If the kids are that interested in studying scripture, why not go to sunday school? At least they would get to study the bible from their own denomination’s perspective.
It’s a fair and very real concern to have. I think really the fact that it’s Texas is what puts it at the most risk for being subjectively taught. I have big problems with the teachers you mentioned injecting creationism (or any other religious-based beliefs) into their classes. But that is the battle we should be fighting. I would be very happy to see classroom audits of public schools to ensure that the teachers are presenting things objectively.
And my perspective may be a little different coming from 12 years of Catholic school. My schools had an hour of extremely biased bible and/or religious teaching every day. Especially by high school, kids were either indoctrinated or they weren’t. The bias didn’t meaningfully affect them, and usually turned them off to the idea even more. I like to think I turned out OK :)
And that’s not to condone such teaching in public schools, by any means. Just shedding a little light on my perspective. I think learning about the bible can be a good thing, and we should spend our efforts fighting for objectivity, rather than pushing against a bible class itself.
Then if it objectivity we are looking for, instead of pushing against a bible class, we should push for a Quaran class, a Talmud class and a Book or Mormon class. Watch Texas get up in arms about that. And the same people that will push for a Bible class — well I think we know what their reaction will be to a Quran class. Yes learning about the bible can be a good thing — but so can learning about the Quran, Talmud, and Book of Mormon.